Hud Robot part 2 and the Professor

Just read back over my post profiling the Hud Robot as a player type and I stupidly forgot to mention their favourite player.

Silly me. Pretty obvious really, in case you haven't already gathered......

ITS HOWARD LEDERER STUPID!!

And talking of the man himself, I think he can safely kiss any remaining credibility of being the "professor" of poker goodbye after his recent performance on Poker After Dark with Dwan, Ivy, Zigmund et al. Not sure if you saw it, but it was the biggest illustration I have seen yet as to how the game has been totally changed in the last 2 years. Notwithstanding that, even Hellmuth was prepared to mix it up a bit with Dwan at the last cash game there, but Lederer, on losing his AA to a set for 200bb ($100k) in one of the first hands (overplayed in true ubernit style), Lederer rebought, shut up shop and folded hand after hand for the remaining entire week of poker. I have no idea what he was thinking, but he must surely have been aware that the poker world was watching. And with another $20k of blinds and antes away, he confirmed to me that cash poker deep stacked leaves you nowhere to hide.

Clearly playing scared money, what he thought he was doing there, or hoped to prove, is beyond me, and aside from his awful ring game, he demonstrated one of the biggest errors any novice player can ever make, that of poor game selection.

The Hud Robot

There are a few people out there who, at some time in their life, had their imaginations removed by a quick painless operation that they may no longer remember how it happened. These people exist on a diet of mediocrity and over-logic. When these same people find poker, they in turn find themselves obsessing to such huge amounts over their other organ -their HUD.

Welcome to the world of the HUD Robot.

We all love our Huds, and we all use them a bit. The HUD Robot however, likes to have 3 rows of stats as the minimum, but I have seen screenshots of guys with 5 before. PT was good, but Holdem Manager was heaven, especially with the 3bet stats that came in.

As such, the critical things of no limit (the "look and feel" of deep stack play) which no HUD can teach you, pass these poor souls by. When facing a CR on a wet board therefore, their poor little HUD can't cope, and in this unfortunate vacuum of statistical information, they panic, as they have to make a decision ON THEIR OWN, which, due to the panic, usually means a wrong decision.

The HUD robot will usually be, in the outside world, a good reliable right hand man to the boss of a company, loyally carrying out same boss's directions in good worker ant fashion, as he is not comfortable making decisions on his own.

The Hud Robot also adores books by Sklansky, especially those like NLT&P where plenty of mathematics are written out for him to examine and "copy".

How to spot a HUD Robot? A bit tricky at first. Standard prelfop ranges and bet sizes, together with conventional play post flop, and long pauses at each betting round as they check their pop ups. (Nb the timing tell is only relevant once you have checked the amount of tables they are playing). This type rarely, if ever, value bet thin as their knowledge of stats means they are paranoid of never having the nuts, and the possibility that their opponnent could have just that. So the check on the end of a runner runner flush board with them having a 2 pair or a set is usually a good tell of their tendencies.

How to play a HUD Robot? Simple, really...just mix it up and fire into him when you hit your unlikely hand, his HUD won't tell him to fold. Confused, he will make the wrong decision usually.

The Serial Shortstacker

Low self esteem? Do you hate the world? Think its a dog-eat-dog world and you just got to look after numero uno? Scared to raise those pocket 2s? Well, if so, finally here's a post just for you, and following on from my Player Types mini-series.

Risking the wrath of the small but very vicious army of Small stackers out there, I decided to give my thoughts on what are, surely, the most detested of player types. The Serial Shortstacker. "Hey," I hear them scream, "that's not a player type, that's a STRATEGY".

Well, that would be right, except I didn't call the player type the short stacker, I called him the SERIAL SSr. Yes, unlike the other min buy-in money types that play at the micros, who do indeed tend to just donate their 20bb before going to bed for a bit of fun, or the scared money types, or the guys who might try it at a new level to get a feel, the serialSS actually ENJOYS the strategy, and positively aspires to play this way regularly.

Now although everyone else hates them, and they are aware of that, the Serial SS has to come to terms with this. They have a contempt for the bigger pool deeper stack players who, they know, indeed, positively loath them. So they deal with this by building a virtual wall in their minds to cope their unpopularity by in turn loathing every single poker player (probably everyone in the world full stop) other than themselves, which presumably goes with their general phsyche. . They avoid the insults, having received so many of them, by turning off their chat boxes, so don't waste your time expressing your frustration each time they push with their 33 and hold up v your AK, or they stop-and-go and catch on the river v your hero call when you were ahead . Just think of summer roses, karma, and Bhudda whilst gritting your teeth. That way you don't play into their hands, and end up donking money to them or the rest of the table. Donking money away is bad of course, but donking money to the SerialShortstacker is plain criminal.

The SerialSS relies entirely on you not noticing, (or forgetting about) their transparent strategy. And it works, as long as you get bored and play into their predictable limp reraise (sometimes they do this by min raising too). Just limp along with them, and fit fold the flop. Don't worry, if you hit 2 pair, they will gladly give you their measly 20bb as they stop-and-go the flop after their limp reraise didn't work. Never, ever call with a speculative holding against these numpties, you never have the odds. Put them all in withAk-AQ, JJ-TT, flat call their raise with AA-QQ, and throw the rest v their open raise.

The SerialSS will have you believe that his is a fine, complex and thoughtful strategy, full of deep thinking and many variables. The fact that none of them have ever seen a turn card with money behind in their miserable lives escapes them. They are so used to thinking about things entirely from their own perspective that they have no desire to delve into the higher level concepts of no-limit deep stack (no need to hand read after all). ........."And why should I", I hear them shout. ........Why indeed.

Cmon guys, lets keep the discipline up so we can stop paying them off and rid ourselves of this pox once and for all. My solution to the Serial shortstackers would be to make them play at tables where the MAX buyin would be 20bb, but the min buy in would be 5bb. Let them hone their skills there, with their own kind (who they also hate, by the way).

The Serial shortstacker has no favourite player (other then themselves obviously, but who they also sub-conciously detest) as no "known" players have become "good" and arrived at high stakes by playing their crappy, hugely selfish SS strategy.

Ps - playing these types is actually quite difficult, and my brief strategy notes above for playable hands are just that, so please do not rely on them for game theory, as there is far more too it. The aim of this post is simply to briefly "reflect" about them . In fact, adjusting to a 20bb stack when they do come to your tables comes much more down to maths and less to psychology (and thus very different/simpler than deep stack philosophy). I am serious about wanting to beat this type as the games would be better as a result, and there is good information out there pertaining to open raising with them still to act, calling their raises, and such, and thinking in relation to the remaining stacks. Please use it. However the very best strategy is simply to find games without them.

calling 3bets using player types

In my previous post I talked about the 3bet and how much value is being lost in my view by its (over) application. I argued that keeping pots small and extracting value is more +EV than 100% 3bet/fold strategy. But what to do when tight people 3bet you, and you have to decide what to do. Well, I tend not to pay so much attention to stats, and much more to the type of player I am up against, our history, and my cards in relation to my position. A speculative hand such as sc or low pp is only good for me if I have position and I think my opponent will overplay his hand, as many do in 3bet pots. and I VERY rarely call a 3bet with 22-66.

So here is a hand to sum up. Villain is a mixture between an ubernit and a spewtard, who has only ever 3bet with a premium hand, but will go to showdown with it 100% of time. He is the perfect dude to therefore play a speculative hand in position with a view to busting his fat arse (he's got a huge stack). I have already called his 3bet once, and lost a few bb trying to make him fold by repping a flush, and regarding levelling, I know he knows he's not to believe me when I flat call from stealing position. I know I am way behind here therefore, and I know he thinks he's ahead. So this Villain is 18/16 with a 6.4% 3bet and, importantly, a huge WTSD%.

$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players

Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details

Hero (CO): $115.55 (115.6 bb)
BTN: $178.30 (178.3 bb)
SB: $332.45 (332.5 bb)
BB: $187.50 (187.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 9 T
Hero raises to $3.50, BTN folds, SB raises to $11.50, BB folds, Hero calls $8. I am in the habit of occasionally calling in position, only if I think villain has a preflop monster. T9s is no good against something like AQ or 66 as villain will rarely be prepared to play for stacks post flop, but great against AA-QQ.

Flop: ($24) 5 8 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB raises to $35, Hero raises to $104.05 and is all-in, SB calls $69.05
here I am happy in the knowledge that my opponent almost certainly has the overpair or possibly an unlikely AK. I am 56% versus his 44% range and I am definitely playing for stacks, as I understand I have no fold equity. I wouldn't have called without the intention of playing for stacks in a marginal spot otherwise. the only hand I am worried about is JJ, which is 51% against my 49%, as I have lost a few outs, and the AKhh which still leaves me with good equity. Note I have discounted sets from his range as I think he is set mining with these (which is a poor play in his situation, but I still think he plays that way). Even with a set, I am still 42% .

Turn: ($232.10) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($232.10) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $232.10 pot ($2.00 rake)
Final Board: 5 8 7 5 Q
Hero showed 9 T (a flush, Ten high) and won $230.10 ($114.55 net)
SB showed J J (two pairs, Jacks and Fives) and lost (-$115.55 net)

Please note my winnings here are not 232 bb. I need to subtract the 30bb I spent on an earlier hand finding out about this particular player. Why would I play for stacks with no fold equity in a flip situation ?(actually I am marginally ahead, but forget about that for now) Well, because of this dudes desire to commit when in a hand, I would continue to search him out, to continue to aim for the huge implied odds he offers, in order to recoup the "purchase cost" of my 30bb. I would also aim to avoid coinflip spots with no fold equity against him in the future, and therefore, for example, mix up by just flat calling with a hand like AA, or set mining maybe.

Final thing to note is I understand a lot players may not agree with this line. In a previous post, Lorin Yelle provided some input in why he believes I could make a mistake, as well as over valuing implied odds, so please read that for further analysis, keeping in mind that is a full ring situation, whereas this is 6max, where flipping is more common obviously. There is no need to play these type of hands at 1006max in 3bet pots, but with good reads, there is money to be made.

Hope this isn't too spewy a line.

OK so its back to playing poker in September.

The Ubernit

As I have been away for most of the month, I have not been able to play much poker, so no brag (or cry-baby) graph this month as too little volume. I may in fact stop posting monthly graphs as I am not sure if they help or hinder. We’ll see. Thought I might have some more fun with my thoughts on player types instead. So…..

Mr Ubernit

Hey, we’ve all done it, so no denials.

Stared down at AA from UTG after ages of folding, licked our lips as we consider our sexy graph after this hand, raise the appropriate amount, and wait for those fish to come on board. Actually the only one who calls is that pesky LAG from the button. Well, who cares, its time to teach that guy a lesson, and me and my bullets are here to do just that.

Flop is all low cards. Grrrreat. Continuation bet time. Great again, he calls. Turn another low card, bet again. What? He min raises. That git is trying to bluff me. Well not this time buddy you say, as you hit the All-in button. The rest is a blur, as all you remember is seeing the mountain of chips shipping in the other direction. WHAT A BAD BEAT……..

This is usually one’s early hard lessons in cash games deep stacked (so that’s why they short stack…NB I will be adding the SerialShortstacker to my player types soon, although I am a bit scared of the wrath I might get from that particular community when I do, yikes) and after a few times we learn to lose less than the maximum and start to get better. The skill in these pots is losing the minimum, cos you will always lose a fair chunk of your stack.

The ubernit cannot learn this lesson, and loses stack after stack with his premiums, and never gets paid off with his sets. He runs at somewhere around 11/4 at full ring and at 14/8 at 6max. when the ubernit raises, he turns his cards face up (AA-JJ, AK and maybe AQ if late pos) I have seen some even limp JJ treating it as a set mine or check call on low cards. TT downwards is open limp. When the ubernit calls a raise he has JJ and below, or poss AK-AQ. The ubernit wont 3bet QQ from the blinds at FR,and only 3bets JJ+ at 6max from blinds, never bluffing. When the ubernit calls on any board he has either an overpair or a set. If an ubernit hits a straight or flush, it’s always by accident.

Ubernits never ever use the chat boxes.

Ubernits usually come from some weird city or country that noone has ever heard of, and have really unimaginative screen names like Karl66 or Wjke.

Ubernits always play with a full stack, and insta rebuy when busted.(which is often)

Watch as all but the superdonks insta fold when the ubernit raises any flop or turn.

The implied odds that we so romanticise about exist in abundance against the ubernit, and calling with any pp or suited connector is where its at against them, because if you hit you are getting their stack. I even call sometimes with something like a3o, knowing if I hit A3x with them on AK-AQ they are giving me their stack, and they are snap check folding with KK. If I don’t hit the 2 pair, even on an A rag flop, it’s me who is insta folding.
One word of warning, never ever EVER try to bluff the ubernit. I speak from bitter experience.

I have many many nice examples of this player type in action if anyone wants me to post them.

My fav type of player by far.

The ChatDonk

Following on from the other player types in earlier posts (the aggrodonk and the spewtard) one player type that doesn't get a mention much is the Chatdonk. I guess this type disappears as you move up the stakes ladder but at the micros they hang around, filling the chat boxes with complete nonsense.

Chatdonks have 2 clear characteristics, the first is that they are unaware of the complexities of NL cash (that is...they are very predictable players who think they are the nuts because they have read Harrington, as opposed to out and out pure fish, and I certainly think I still am getting to grips with this with relates to my own play) but the second is they THINK they are the dogs bollocks (that is.....very unpredictable sharks just waiting to get properly rolled for 1000nl if the rest of us idiots would just stop cracking their aces with 75s)

Chat donks go crazy with their typing when the following things happen....

a) they win a big pot (and everyone else at the table starts to yawn). Here they become uber nice guys and go into the ins and outs of the hand and seem all together ecstatic with life.
b) they lose a pot due to "bad" play by another player. Here they drone on and on about the donks and how you can never beat them, and how could you call and.......blah blah blah.

chatdonks berate others for bad play, not getting the fact that it's this very aspect of poker (bad play by one's opponents) that gives us our profit. No doubt chatdonks think that if everyone played optimally then they would magically become winning players.

Chatdonks make the complete recreational fish think twice before continuing to rebuy when busted. Or hit and run if they double up. By being continually berated the fish starts to actually think more, and will decide to quit while he's ahead, taking the dead money from the table. Its for this final ultimate crime that makes chatdonks complete and utter donks.

Because chatonks are so ABC Harrington, who tend to fear monsters under the bed (covering up their inadequacies by talking nonsense the whole time) a simple check-raise, or double-float-all-in-whentheycheckriver, will often take away the pot from them, regardless of their holding. Sets or above is what they will require to call you.

Their favourite player is Phil Hellmuth.

Finally, ChatDonks usually have a really annoying screen name.......

Playing Spewtards

Here is some more musings on my little mini series of player types at the 6max micros.

The main difference between the aggro donks and the spewtards is the all-in button.

Whereas the aggros are capable of finally make a laydown after the 4 or 5bet missile comes in, the spewtards, on the contrary, feel they are so committed by then, that its cross fingers and hope hope hope.

Spewtards think they can push anyone of TP by CRAI with, well.......nothing. Aside from never thinking about the opposite player, and whether he has adjusted to the spewtard's glaring tendencies, they usually pick spots where said opponent is sitting on the near nuts, set, straight etc, probably the hand they are trying to rep. Tags will also call their oop all-in turn shoves (the spewtard will have cr'd the low flop, which the TAG will have called) with just overpairs, cos.....well....... it's a spewtard after all.

Be quick with your note taking on the Spewtard, because they don't hang around when they get busted. Some immediately go to another table where they can CR shove with renewed vigour until they get looked up again.

The spewtard can be identified with LAG preflop stats and a high CR% on flop and turn. They also tend to proliferate at sites where the all in button sits conveniently close to the bet slider. (I owe thanks to full tilt for the many double ups as a result of their software being suited to the spewtard tendencies)

When I am running card dead, and just sitting there folding and folding, spewtards can make an otherwise boring session into an extremely entertaining and funny hour or so, seeing them getting busted time after time.

I will post a typical hand history that illustrates the Spewtard next post.

Playing Aggro Donks Part 2

This is part 2 on my thoughts on the overagrro donks who think they are so baller at 50nl 6max. See my previous post for aggro donks part 1.

Another thing the Aggro donk can't help himself over is the battle of the blinds. If he is in the bb and sb limps, he loves to raise regardless of his holdings, cos that's what they do in the CR videos. He doesn't think back to what happened before, or whether it's a typical thing from his opponent, he does it because "that's what aggressive players do, and aggression pays".

When I have one of these types on my left, from the sb I may limp, (it's usually the only time I ever do) with, say a pp or Ahigh or good SC, and either repop him big preflop or cr the flop. watch them time down and fold, hollywooding their big laydown.

I keep the chat box switched on, because some aggro donks love to express how good they are at poker (not), by slagging off another player. If they get beaten, the other play got lucky, etc etc. They like to needle players Mike Matusow style, completely lacking in any class or dignity.

Checking some of the typical aggro donks data, quite often they are moving down from a higher level, (prob after having been crushed there) and have a low opinion of the lowly opposition at said limits.

Playing Aggro Donks

Man, I used to get tired of playing against the nit regs at full ring (was I one too???), but at 6max it's the aggro donks that seem to think they're the thang and proliferate there. Quite incapable of playing post flop, obsessed with keeping their vpip/pfr stats as close as possible to each other, they think it's uncool to flat call preflop, and instead you can hear them saying "duhhhhhh......it's 3bet or fold with this small pocket pair. Can't set mine at 6max.....duhhhh" Flush draw? Oh.....Check raise all in regardless of the other guys holding, "fold equity" they say.

Post flop they have no dynamic, and its double barreling or folding etc etc. Hand reading isn't in the aggro donk's vocabulary, neither is varied bet sizing. They range from around 21/20 to 34/29 but always have a very high 3bet% and a lowish cont bet after 3betting (suggest you find that stat offline). If you can catch on, and be prepared for a somewhat higher variance style of play, they will pay you off handsomely.

The aggro donk can never understand why he can't get above or even reach 200nl, as they whine in the forums, but its because they can't play proper poker. They take tournament pre and post flop strategies and apply them blindly to cash.

I used to avoid locking horns with them, and did just fine, but as the month closes I have been experimenting with a higher variance style of play before I move back up to 100nl and try 6 max there. It's more out of curiousity to see what exactly they are playing with. It's brought my win rate down a bit, but who cares.

Here's a typical hand.
Aggro donk has position on me and I have been playing pretty tight at that particular table. His stats are 25/23 with a 13.2% 3bet stat, classic aggro profile.

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players

Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details

BB: $56.05 (112.1 bb)
Hero (MP1): $145.35 (290.7 bb)
MP2: $63.15 (126.3 bb)
CO: $16.50 (33 bb)
BTN: $88.20 (176.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP1 with Q J
sometimes I will throw this UTg but as I have been very quiet with a low VPIP, this is an excellent way to open

Hero raises to $1.50, MP2 raises to $5, 3 folds, Hero raises to $14.50, MP2 calls $9.50

MP2 aggro donk 3bets me, and I decide to rep AA-KK and 4bet, he's been 3betting everyone relentlessly, and guess he will have to fold unless he has JJ-AA, AK, in which case he will definitely shove (I hope) and I can fold. He surprises me by flat calling. The only hands that might do that are TT-QQ and maybe AK-AQ. JJ and QQ are unlikely (although possible) due to my holding and the fact that JJ-QQ are still like AA to aggro donks. I am very unhappy that he called however, as I have a weakish holding OOP. I just wanted him to fold.....

Flop: ($29.50) 4 3 J (2 players)
Hero bets $18, MP2 raises to $48.65 and is all-in, Hero calls $30.65
Good flop for me, especially as I am surish he doesn't have JJ-QQ. TT more likely now, but AKs diamond very possible too in which case we are flipping. I am calling his all in 3bet.
Turn: ($126.80) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($126.80) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $126.80 pot ($3.00 rake)

Hero showed Q J (two pairs, Queens and Jacks) and won $123.80 ($60.65 net)
MP2 showed 9 8 (high card Queen) and lost (-$63.15 net)

Aggro donk proceeds to complain in chat box how I could possibly 4bet there and what was I playing at, completely ignoring the fact that he 3bet bluffed with 98s from an UTG raiser (not the end of the world I guess, but still daft) and THEN called a 4bet with 98s against what looked like AA-KK.

They can't help themselves.

If he had just flat called pre, and 3bet my cont bet, I would have folded, even with TP, on such a bad draw board, as we were both deep and I wasn't committed, and was out of pos.

Edit: see aggro donks part 2 here